What do you think of E85 Ethanol fuel. A lot of car manufacturers (including Ford) are adding the E85 options to their cars. There are also a lot of companies and individuals that are investing in the development of the technology to produce this alternative fuel. Is this a passing phase or is the answer that will help us lower our dependency on petroleum fuels?

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the sharpest tool in the shed
1989 Mustang 5.0 GT (25th Anniversary Edition)
~hobby car~

It's probably going to be one of the answers. If Opec oil prices continue to rise and it looks like they will. There are a few problems to overcome however.
First, my understanding is that while cheeper than gasoline, it's not enough cheeper to offset the loss in MPG. So the cost per mile is roughly the same as gas.
So there's very little incentive for the driving public to seek it out.

Next is availability. Except for places like Iowa and Nebraska and a few other states in that general part of the country.
Finding E85 is not that easy. Here in Calif. for instance, I understand there are only something like 5-6 stations in the entire state that sell the stuff.
I'm sure that as soon as the demand is great enough and the profits large enough all the big boys, Shell, Mobile, etc. will come running.

It seems that even with a lower MPG of E85 it could still be produced cheap enough to outdo gasoline, since it is made from a resource that we Americans can control.

I know what you mean about the availability. I recently purchased a car that would take E85, but I have never seen I place that actually sold Ethanol. Hopefully this will improve as more and more Ethanol plants are built around the country. I know of one plant that is in the planning in the Fresno area and is being backed by Bill Gates as an investor. Hopefully once this is built I will be able to find E85 to at least try it out compared to gasoline.

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the sharpest tool in the shed
1989 Mustang 5.0 GT (25th Anniversary Edition)
~hobby car~

I agree with you sharpie. It could be a cheaper source of energy if produced in large enough quantities. We could grow all the raw materials we needed
right here in the U.S.A. Prices could be stabilized and it's renewable. So we wouldn't be dependent on foreign countries that hate our guts anyway to supply us.
Countries in So. America have been using the stuff for 30 years. I think they make theirs from sugar. I read somewhere that they have cut their oil imports
from Opec dramatically in the last 10 years. However until it's more economical to use here, read cheaper, and more readily available,
I don't think it will ever become a threat to gasoline in this country.

In other words, the driving public (you and I) need to start demanding oil companies in this country start producing more of the stuff.
The government sure as heck won't do it. To darn many oil company lobbyists in Washington

So far the rush to produce enough corn to convert on a mass basis to E-85 is producing rapid inflationary pressures on many other commodities. Farmers are converting or getting ready to redirect their production in Wheat, cotton, soybeans, you name it, to corn. The resulting shortages are already being felt at this early stage. Higher prices at the grocery for Milk, bread, vegies, dog food, etc. will be the result. Cost to convert a non e-85 vehicle are very high too.
Going back to my account of the Chevy sprint, when I put 10% ethanol into it, the mileage dropped exactly 10%.

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46 1/2 ton with 56 292:thumbsup:

Hold on a sec. I heard it takes more energy to make this e-85 than it puts out.

I have read that many of the early finding that suggested that it takes more energy to produce E85 than it outputs were most likely incorrect, and may have been sponsored by the oil companies. Most recent studies have been finding that Ethanol would actually provide a positive energy balance.

There is also the factor that building a homegrown ethanol industry that will create high-skill jobs, provide a reliable supply of fuel, and keep at least some of the nation's fuel money in the USA would provide a positive boost to the nation's economy.

This surely isn't an effect that would be noticed anytime soon, but it is something that needs to considered for our countries future.

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the sharpest tool in the shed
1989 Mustang 5.0 GT (25th Anniversary Edition)
~hobby car~

Anything that reduces our dependence from foreign oil is a great thing. IMHO. I really hope this works! I wonder if there is any performance drop using this corn gas vs regular

Although not a great thing mileage wise, it is part of a puzzle we desperately need to get together. Other parts are hybrids, all electric and way down the road hydrogen fuel cells. I think twenty-thirty years from now vehicles will be run in away we never dreamed off!

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...... BRIAN ......

I don't know how many of you are old enough to remember the Arab oil embargoes in 73 and again in 78. When that happened, people were waiting in line
for 2-3 hours or more to buy gas. I don't recall for sure but I believe there were even a few incidence of people trying to jump a gas line and getting
shot or beaten by an angry crowd. No I'm not kidding. Imagine how you would feel if you stood in line for 2-3 hours and just as you got near the front,
the station runs out of gas. You than have to go down the street, get on the end of another long line and wait another 2-3 hours. It happened to me several times.
If someone had tried to jump the line in front of me in those circumstances, I think I would probably have beaten him senseless also. There was one enterprising young man,
think he was a H.S. senior, that helped pay for collage by waiting in line several hours each day after school and 17-20 hours per day on weekends filling his neighbors cars. For a fee.
That's what was happening in New York where I lived at the time. I don't ever want to see things like that happen again. As long as we depend on foreign oil from anywhere,
we run that risk. In the last 30 years the price of gasoline has gone up about 700% (no that's not a typo) while other COL prices have only risen 300-400%
So to my way of thinking, ANYTHING we can do to reduce or eliminate that dependency is worth it.

The demand will incress, so for investment futures look to corn.
Willie is investing in biofuel. He has 1 station in Texas that makes and sell's the stuff.

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Down the two lane blacktop.
Oldskool Is Kool :thumbsup:
Ford Man From Way Back



Check out: hotrodhotline.com for my pictures.

"Willie"???????? Pardon my ignorance. "Who's Willie?"

Willie Nelson? :)

Seriously doubt fuel cells will be ready in 30 years. Hydrogen is supposedly being applied by BMW in the next 4-5 years. Supposedly. The only problem is one bad wreck and the whole highway is gone.

Oh: The outlaw.

I have been reading a lot about the state of Missouri being very leading edge in its push to ethanol fuel. Here are some really interesting laws that Missouri has in place or currently in legislation:

-Missouri has a law in place that requires that all gasoline sold in the state will contain a 10 percent ethanol blend beginning next January

-A new bill in legislation would require a 5 percent biodiesel mandate to diesel fuel sold in Missouri beginning in April 2009

-A new bill in legislation that would give a 20% or $20,000 tax credit, whichever is lower, for all stations that install alternative fuel tanks and pumps

-A new bill in legislation that would give an income tax credit of up to $1,500 or 10 percent of the purchase price of a new hybrid car for such buyers

-A new bill in legislation that would waive all sales taxes on E85 equipped cars

These are some pretty aggressive measures by the State of Missouri. I think with these incentives in place the E85 usage would definitely increase. But again as has been questioned here, how do we meet the demand? What seems to be developing is a need for alternative alternative fuels since corn may not be able to keep up with demands, at least without causing major damage to the economy.

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the sharpest tool in the shed
1989 Mustang 5.0 GT (25th Anniversary Edition)
~hobby car~

Anyone here see the movie Who Killed the Electric car? They made Hydrogen seem like a joke.

Ethanol is still pretty young in terms of fuel technology. The MPG will increase over time as the technology developes. As will the efficiency of harvesting it and refining it. And it is a renewable source of fuel, which is most important. When we learn more about it, it will become more plentiful, and cheaper. We all just have to have some paitence then we will reap the rewards.

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The Ford GT= Greatest of all Time :thumbsup:

Check out this link that displays the multiple E85 stations that can be found in the US: National Ethanol Vehicle Coalition
It is kind of interesting to note that California, which has millions to spend on ethanol development thanks to the voters, has only 5 stations. Compared to Missouri, which is only a fraction of the size of CA, has way fewer people and cars, but has 71 stations.
How many stations does your state have?

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the sharpest tool in the shed
1989 Mustang 5.0 GT (25th Anniversary Edition)
~hobby car~

I totally agree it's bleeping stupid situation. But look how much closer to the heartland Missouri is then California. It's all about Location, Location, Location. Maybe California can start seaweed farms and use that to make fuel. Hopefully.

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The Ford GT= Greatest of all Time :thumbsup: