FordPhreeque: You are so right. Location, location, location. I found this on an E85 web site. I found it very interesting.

Does it take more energy to produce a gallon of ethanol than the energy we get out of it?

Response:

No. This has been a common misconception of the ethanol industry, that it takes more energy to make ethanol than is available to the final consumer.
Remember, ethanol is produced from plant matter, today dominated by corn, wheat, potatoes, sorghum, etc.
Plants grow through the use of energy provided by the sun and are a renewable resources. In the future, ethanol will be produced from waste products or energy crops.
In fact, a partner of the NEVC, BC International (BCI), is currently constructing an ethanol production plant in Louisiana that will use sugar cane waste to produce ethanol.
Additionally, BCI is considering the establishment of ethanol production facilities in California that would use the waste hulls from rice growers and wood waste
from the forrest industry to produce ethanol. Energy crops such as perennial switch grasses, timothy, and other high-output/low-input crops will be used in the future.

Current research prepared by Argonne National Laboratory (a U.S. Department of Energy Laboratory), indicates a 38% gain in the overall energy input/output equation
for the corn-to-ethanol process. That is, if 100 BTUs of energy is used to plant corn, harvest the crop, transport it, etc., 138 BTUs of energy is available in the fuel ethanol.
Corn yields and processing technologies have improved significantly over the past 20 years and they continue to do so, making ethanol production less and less energy intensive.

It will take a lot of corn to make ethanol. Do we have enough land to grow all that corn and still grow needed food crops?
How about "anything into oil"? There is a plant in Carthage, Missouri that uses waste(turkey guts) from a nearby Butterball turkey processing plant and makes minerals, synthetic gas, and oil. It's a light distillate type of oil, like diesel. There's no reason it couldn't be extended to use other forms of waste, such as pig, cow, sheep, turkey and chicken manure, human waste from municipal sewage systems, and more.
Read this:
Anything Into Oil | Environment | DISCOVER Magazine

Think the key will be when the demand for alternative fuels is high enough (read $5-6 per gallon gasoline) technology will start producing fuel from other things besides oil.
Things that are now considered "waist" and either added to land fills or plowed back into the ground will be turned into fuel.
As stated in post 21 above, sugar cane waste in Louisiana, waste hulls from rice in California, etc. It also doesn't make sense to make E85 out of corn in Iowa,
then transport it to California and Florida. Learn to use what you have locally. Done in this manner, using only waist products for fuel,
and eating the crops as we now do, there should be no shortages. But what do I know.

I think the oil companies realize this and so we see prices climb rapidly, then come back down. That way they get us to thinking $3.20 per gallon isn't so bad,
after the $3.50 we were paying a few weeks ago. Then in say 4-5 months they'll run the price up to $4.25 the back to $3.85, and so on and so on.

[quote=memphissenior;40394]also doesn't make sense to make E85 out of corn in Iowa, then transport it to California and Florida. Learn to use what you have locally.QUOTE]

No kidding. There is a higher population in California, more people= More trash/waste. Trash/waste can be turned into fuel. And since a majority of the American population will live-something like 30 minutes-within the coastline, then use what's "left behind" as fuel.
Out in the desert though it's a different story little water and a constant drought, and a population that won't stop growing means too little room for farmland. Since the sun is out, even at night, maybe cars here can run off of solar, or something.

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