My current 46 Ford pickup with Ford 292 Y has poor mileage, being only 14 mpg. The truck weight is approx. 2750 lbs, rear is a 3.00, manual shift, carb a small normally efficent Autolite 2V, cam is stout 270 degree .460 lift.

The poor mileage is primarily due to the way the motor was built. Knowing virtually nothing about motors when I had it done, the machinist had a blank check to do what he wanted, and it wasnt good. He put in a set of short 312 rods which didnt match up with the 292 stroke, placing the pistons .125 below deck at TDC. Add the .043 gasket thickness and there is a whopping quench of .168! It is amazing this motor runs at all! That high quench gives a very low compression (in the area of 7.3 :1) and does not work with a performance cam thus requiring the small 2V carb. Several years ago my mechanic and I checked the cranking compression, and it was a dismal 110-120 psi (motor then had 100 miles on it). Dont know for sure, because it was so disappointing I didnt want to think too much about the numbers and dont remember them exactly. At that point in time there was a Holley 600 cfm on top, which had no chance whatever of working well. Timing has to be advanced to 10 degrees initial.

I have gained a little experience and knowledge since that build, and am bringing home a newly machined Y shortblock to assemble next week. It has been done with a lot of input this time, with an objective of 20-24 mpg. Like Memphissenior said in another post, emphasis is on high torque at low rpm, consitent with the 3.00 rear. Main bearing journals are line bored, piston bore is .060 over, multiadjustable roller chain and billet timing gears for degreeing cam, balancing of pistons/rods/crank, and deck milled for pistons to end up .005 in the hole producing .048 quench. Aside from improving CR the fairly small quench will provide better air fuel mix and burn, require less timing and less negative work done in the combustion chamber.

The static compression of 9:0, plus 260 degree cam, gives a dynamic compression of 8.10 and cranking compressioin of 167 psi. This very welll may make it to 24 mpg, and perform a hell of a lot better too! Horsepower should be a modest 250, but that would be FINE with me.

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46 1/2 ton with 56 292:thumbsup:

With 250 hp in a 2750 lb. truck you're looking at about 11 lbs per hp. Not quite a GT 500, but not to shabby either. Should really get up and go. :thumbsup:
Wish my memory was better. In 1961 I had a 55 business coupe with a 292 in it. It ran 18's at 78-80 mph stock with a 2 barrel.
By the time I finished with it in 1965, I was running 14 flat at just over 100 mph. Of course I was running 6, 2 barrel carbs.
A cam with 505 lift and something like 290 deg duration with all kinds of overlap. It had pop up pistons with about 14.-14.5:1 C/R.
It was very finicky about gas and wouldn't run worth a darn on anything less than Amaco hi-test or Sunoco 260
It didn't idle much below 17-1800 rpm and even then it was ruff as heck. But WOW: what a top end. I was shifting at 73-7500 rpm.
All the Chevy guys thought I was B.S.ing them when I told them that. Said no Y-block could get that high. :thumbsup:
I laughed all the way to the trophy stand.

That is a great story! I can imagine how that motor would have sounded. There is actually a magazine that comes out every other month called simply enough "Y-block Magazine". Circulation is 750, and we love hearing of those times. The scrub lovers have conveniently forgotton that Ford ruled over them in NASCAR up until rules were manifpulated in GM's favor and Ford withdrew from racing as a result.
This last year, Randy Gummelt drove the 1/4 in his rear engined, Y powered dragster in 8.157 @ 162.02 mph, a new world mark.

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46 1/2 ton with 56 292:thumbsup:

Great story memphissenior :thumbsup:

Now that is pretty damn fast

Yes, it's fun to walk down memory lane from time to time.

Something about "Rebuilding an old Ford V-8 for mileage" just sound like an oxymoron

This sounds like an interesting project. Thanks for the great write up and let us know how it goes:thumbsup:

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Say Yblock: Did you ever get/read that book on cam design? As I said earlier, wish my memory was better. I could help you with that.
I did a great deal of experimenting when I was racing and even had a cam grinder grind a cam to my specs. I think it was Lunati.
I called them up and told them what I was trying to accomplish and after talking with one of their very knowledgeable people we
came up with a grind I thought would work. The cam worked great but I had problems with valve float. Probably had the wrong springs.
Anyway I went with an Iskendarian cam & kit. BTW: I know Iskendarian still making cams for the Y-block.

I remember in 73 my wife wanted a sports car, but we needed a family car. She found a derelict 62 Corvair Greenbrier station wagon in a junk yard.
She had come with me when I went looking for parts for my 68 Corvair. She got bored when I started b.s.ing with the owner of the place and wandered off.
She came back all excited. She had seen the Greenbrier sitting in a corner of the lot covered in rust. She wanted to know if it could be fixed and was it for sale.
I bought it and dragged it home and turned it into a "sports station wagon" family car for her. I'm pretty sure it was Lunati I had grind me an RV type cam for the engine.
I fooled around with headers and ended up designing/building my own. Did everything I could to give it low end torque. I had another company, I don't remember their name,
in WA. state I think, wind me a set of springs. Hunted around until I found exactly the shocks that did what I wanted them to do.
I used the shocks designed for the back of a 57 Chevy in front. Can't remember what I used in back. I changed the automatic to a 4 speed complete
with short throw shifter. Changed the dash to a Spider dash so she could have a built in tach. Then I had some little old lady I knew stitch up the inside for me.
Complete with Recaro bucket seats. Had it painted "British Racing Green" with white "racing stripes." A 3" wide one flanked with 1" wide stripes on either side,
on the passenger side of the car. The interior was done in "Buckskin." (tan)
That was one sweet running and handling car. It didn't have much top end. I don't think it would do much over 100, but NOBODY could stay with me from 0-60.
With the engine over the drive wheels and probably 175 hp on tap it would really get up and go. I surprised my share of sports cars, Porsches, Alfa Romeos, MG's
and even the occasional Jag or Vet if they were in the hands of an unskilled driver on the twisty mountain roads of upstate New York.
The car had so much torque that even when the wife messed up and accidently started in 3rd instead of 1st,as she did from time to time.
The car had enough power to pull away. Slowly and a bit jerky, but it still pulled away.



I apologize to everyone for letting this post turn into a book. As I've said elsewhere, it's kind of fun to wonder down memory lane from time to time.

Memphis that sounds like it was a KOOL wagon. Your wife must have a good eye!

Yes I purchased and read the book on camshafts, design, etc. Read a lot of other material too, so have gained quite a bid informationally, though FAR from being well versed or an expert.

The cam that is going in place is an ISKY, grind #e-4. Mild in grind, with 2000-5000 rpm range, valve lift .425, .050 lifter rise has intake close at 36 deg ABDC. Overlap only 44 deg and lobe center 108. Says it is good for rears as high as 3.08, so that is real close to my 3.00. With the slightly shorter rear tire diameters the lower limit for rearend is close to right on. Valve lash is
.015, which will make the solid lifters a little bit quieter than the .018 stock (some cams call for .028).

Still need to obtain a magnetic base dial indicator and degree wheel to degree in the cam. Does anyone have one they arent using? Want the wheel to be at least 11 inches. Also would like cylinder bridge/deck bridge to check the final deck height.

The cam is ground with zero advance built in, and a decision needs to be make on how much advance to set it up for. Thinking 2 degrees. Some have said 4 degrees. The roller timing chain and billet gears should not have near the stretch as stock timing sets, so 4 degrees seems a bit too much. Any suggestions there?

The heads will be a straight changeover from the current motor. They have the big 1.925 inch intakes and large intake ports, & have been milled .020. Springs are 95/250 so that should work. The intake manifold is a straight across swap also, being an aftermarket Blue Thunder Aluminum dual plane 4V. Other goodies to be bolted up include the aluminum H2O pump, alum timing cover, alum bell housing, mini hiTorque starter.

Initially the carb will be a larger Autolite 2V, going from 257 cfm currently to 300 cfm. Later as finances allow the plan includes either an Edelbrock 500 cfm or Demon 525 cfm.

This is long, but it helps at least me to write it down, keeping thoughts and plans in order.

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46 1/2 ton with 56 292:thumbsup:

I'm following this thread with interest. Take some pics of this project if you can!

I'd love to see this documented as well! :thumbsup:

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Yes we were a pretty good team. She designed and coordinated the project and I turned her ideas into reality.
She picked out the colors, seat style, which pieces of chrome stayed and which got removed, etc. I made it happen.

Had you asked me that question 45 years ago, I would still have had some problem answering. I was looking for POWER. Not MPG.
So I concentrated on that end of design. My gut tells me to install the cam straight up. NO advance. Can't remember why though.
I vaguely remember that if you advance the cam you move the power up in the RPM range. If you retard it, the power/torque moves down.
It's been a long time and I'm not really sure if that's correct any more. As I recall it wasn't a big deal to remove the water pump housing to get at the cam key.
Just 4 long bolts on top that went through the fan housing and water pump housing, and 2 short ones on the bottom. I think I had several keys in my tool box.
Like 2-4 advance and 2-4 retard. I would move the power up/down depending on track conditions. Got to where I could change the key in less than a hr. I think.

You might want to call Isky and ask to speak with a tech rep. Don't know about today, but that's how I did it 45 years ago,
they were very friendly and helpful. Answered all my questions. IF they started talking over my head, which they could easily do,
they were very patient and explained things to me. This stuff is all trial and error anyway. So after you talk to them you could try this.
Start where the Isky tech advises you to. Run the engine that way for say 2,000-3,000 miles. Keep VERY CAREFUL records.
Driving conditions, speeds, weather, terrain, etc. With the advent of computers that shouldn't be to hard to do.
When you have a good baseline, change the key to 2 deg advanced. Do the same thing and see if things got better or worse.
If better go to 4 deg advanced. If worse, go to 2 deg retarded. Keep doing that until you get the best performance.
Long and involved, of course. But what else have you got to do?

Pics please :thumbsup: How is this project coming along?

The project is waiting, waiting....since the damn block is still at the machinists. It was due to be picked up last Monday, then Wednesday, followed by Friday, and your guess is better than mine on the next pickup date. I first took it to the shop in September!

The machine shop is a total filthy mess. The owner and I had to take the block out of the shop 8 or 9 days ago to transport it to a facility that had a milling machine to take the deck down. To get it out other blocks, cranks heads needed to be moved to make a path to get through. At one point I turned around and knocked a crank over which had been standing upright on the floor. Obviously the man cannot organize either his workspace or time satisfactorily. All payment has been made in full, so there is no hangup due to money owed.

When this does finally get home, I will shoot pictures periodically and post. I am going to check everthing I can with the tools available. Luckily I have a triple beam gram scale and can measure balance weights of rods and pistons.
The piston to deck clearance may be a crap shoot. My spec was .007. The milling machine used consists of a large wheel, maybe 3 feet in diameter with many cutting stones. It is zeroed to the existing deck surface after everything has been aligned, leveled, etc. As it was cutting, you could hear that only one side, 180 degrees, of the wheel was cutting, the other side would be silent as it rotated around into cutting position. The reason being that the wheel wobbled which I could see visibly, one side dipping lower than the other a small amount. My thinking is that the final deck height will be dependent upon which side of the wheel the deck was zeroed at before cutting. So, either I am a Nati Naysayer (isnt that something Spiro Agnew said), or the deck height could be .007 in the hole plus or minus .007, meaning a significantly more or less compression than planned.

Yesterday I took out my frustrations on a poor Mitsubishi pickup my neighbor sold for $50. Decided just to rip out all the aluminum and copper for salvage and have the crusher people pickup the remains. Saved the aluminum radiator to see if it can be made to work in the 46.

Mike

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46 1/2 ton with 56 292:thumbsup:

LOL Way to take it out on the poor little import truck :thumbsup:

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Here is a pic I've been meaning to post since Memphissenior was talking about using offset keys to achieve cam advance/retard. The offsets arent available anymore, but this is better. Only one company makes these, located in Australia. It has as you can see multiple keyways for something like 9 different advance/retard settings. The chain is a roller chain and wont stretch like to old link chains. A degreed cam done with the OEM sets could end up 1 1/2 degrees retarded from original settings in just a few hundred miles due to chain stretch. There was an additional surprise. When I checked the weight of this set compared to an OEM variety, this is 20 ounces lighter.
Advancing the cam will move the torque curve into lower rpms. So at this point the plan is to advance the cam 2 or 2 1/2 degrees. If the rpm range would shift from the advertised 2000-5000, to 1900-4900, that would be just about perfect for the objectives and final drive ratio.

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46 1/2 ton with 56 292:thumbsup:

OK maybe this will work.

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46 1/2 ton with 56 292:thumbsup:

It worked!

Mike, you need to go get your block back from "Gomer" and his cousin "Goober." These jerks shouldn't be working on something that has clearances as tight as .007".
Another thing to take into account if it's not already to late, they could damage that block beyond repair. I don't know for sure but after being out of production for
40 years or so I'd think Y-blocks are not all that easy to find any more. If this jerk has had the block for almost 8 MONTHS, and still isn't finished a job that should have
taken no more than a few days, you need to take it away from him. Even if you have to drive 3-4 hours to find a competent machinist, it would be worth it in a aggravation alone.
About 15-16 years ago, I had a friend that got hooked up with a jerk like that. My friend had a VW bug he wanted to have restored. So he took it to this guy someone had told him about.
Guy had the car for over 3 1/2 YEARS and it still wasn't finished. Only reason my friend got the car back was he was moving 2,000 miles away. So he took it in "as is" condition.
When he got to his new home, my friend not only had to pay another guy to finish the job. He had to pay the guy to correct all the mistakes the first guy made.

Bottom line was it took my friend almost 4 years and cost him almost $9,000. The job should have taken no more than 3-4 months and cost $5,500-6,000.

You shouldn't be taking out your frustrations on some poor, innocent Mitsubishi pickup. You should be doing that to "Gomer" and his cousin.

LOLs, and with many good points! It has been a situation similar to the one Keaunau Reeves(sp) explained in the movie, "The Replacements". The coach asked the players what they feared, and the Reeves character said "Quicksand", explaining a game situation in which things begin poorly, you struggle, they keep going poorly but the game goes on, and suddenly you find yourself neckdeep in quicksand.

But surprise! The block and all components are here! I went in last Thursday loaded for Bear, planning on making a scene. Right after leaving here Gomer called and left a message with the wife that the engine was ready for pickup.
And it was a pleasant surprise when arriving at his place. However the Honda wouldnt handle the block, so picked everything else up and returned Friday. I had been calling him every day, sometimes 5 and 6 times a day. He wouldnt pick up the phone, but I knew it was ringing, and bugging the hell out of him. He has a caller ID and carries a chordless, often letting it ring thru if he's busy or if he knows the caller is wanting something not available.

At least another bigger more professional shop up in Eugene turned and balanced the crank, and line bored the main bearings. He had to ship the motor out for those machinings, but that did not cause any delay, because the block and crank were back within a week. The delay was all him.

Block is now painted and on the stand. Today the plan is to wash and dry it getting ready for assembly. Also will weigh rod/piston assemblies to check his work there.

A dial indicator with magnetic base and stand has arrived to help in setup. I have been wanting one of those for a long time!

Oh he did mention that another customer had a Y in the shop. It had been there 2-3 years!

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46 1/2 ton with 56 292:thumbsup:

Headway was made today. The assemblies of rod/piston/pin/keepers were pretty close on weights. The heaviest weighed 1435.9 grams, and the lightest 1435.3 grams. The assemblies had grease in the pin and rod bushing, so that could account for some of the variance.

Cleaned the block really well and washed, then sprayed the better part of 1 can WD-40 to keep things from rusting. The cam, lifters, and crank are now installed. Yahooo00.... Here are some pics:

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46 1/2 ton with 56 292:thumbsup: